How can we improve the Windows platform?

OpenGL Support

This is an outcropping from the Native SDK suggestion (http://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/110705-app-platform/suggestions/1755203-native-sdk) - folks should please vote and comment on this aspect of the suggestion.

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    Cliff SimpkinsAdminCliff Simpkins (Sr Product Manager, Windows Phone Developer) shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    Thank you for the suggestion and commentary on the OpenGL topic. While we understand that this capability is important to you, we are not planning to add this capability to the Windows Phone developer platform. It is felt that the underlying DirectX platform is sufficiently powerful on its own, and there is extensive guidance out there on bringing OpenGL to DirectX.

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      • SleepyDaddySoftwareSleepyDaddySoftware commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Daniel de Souza: While not 100% ideal, DirectX support DOES mean you can use a "simulated OpenGL" framework that implements the OpenGL API over DirectX. Angle is one such framework, though I can't personally vouch for it's quality/stability:
        http://code.google.com/p/angleproject/

        If you have an OpenGL app on another platform, this is one possible avenue for porting your app to Windows Phone 8. There may be a small performance hit, but your app may in fact run faster on the newer Win8 hardware even with the OpenGL wrapper performance hit, than on the older hardware it was running on for other platforms.

      • LeonardLeonard commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @StephC_int13
        Yes, the old OpenGL v1.2 proposed by SGI is clean and easy to use, but v3.0 and above is not. However, the advantage of being clean is at the expense of lacking features. Student and hobbist programmers may find OpenGL is easy to learn, but what they actually learned is v1.2. Once they move to advanced level, they will find GL's C-style function calls are cumbersome to use. On the contrary, D3D may have a learning curve for beginners, but it's feature-rich and its data structure logic is nicely organized. That's why professional programmers prefer D3D.

      • AnonymousAnonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        While OpenGL would certainly make life easier for developers porting from other devices, I think what is really needed is any programmable shader support. Be it OpenGLES2.0, or DirectX, or XNA with HLSL. I'm not going to do anything cool on windows phone until this is in place-- too many hacky hoops to jump through to make thinks work without shaders. C/C++ would be nice but C# is fine.

      • SleepyDaddySoftwareSleepyDaddySoftware commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Its possible that, given sufficiently robust DirectX 9 support, OpenGL support could come from a compatibility layer like the Angle framework. So, I didn't think I would vote for this, but I recognize that the reality is that pretty much 100% of mobile games, outside of windows phone, are done in OpenGL. So, giving devs direct access to OpenGL would be a major boon to the platform because it would make it a lot easier to port games from other platforms and not have a performance hit from using a compatibility layer like Angle.

        i mean, angle would be good enough for a lot of casual games, the overhead would make a visible difference for some of the more high profile games out there.

      • Michael HansenMichael Hansen commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        well it is called gameover i will release an openGl driver starting januar 2012 for windows phone
        with support for custom shaders and real neon support for game developers and you can submit your game to the homebrew market where you will get the exposure need for your game
        so unles you are willing to wait on microsoft to q4 2012 when thay have lost it all and get there act together you are welcome

      • jiao lujiao lu commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Actually , i think opengl is not must , as long as the directx support the pixel and vertex shader.

      • Dan Leinir Turthra JensenDan Leinir Turthra Jensen commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Any argument i could make for allowing OpenGL is already described by Wolfire Games in their development blog, but as a highlight one must mention the extra work needed for cross platform development: DirectX reaches two platforms, OpenGL reaches many, many more, and if you have a limited budget and want to cross platform your work, you're going to need to go with the one option that gives you wider reach. There's plenty more, but if you want to catch more indie devs, yeah, you really want to allow OpenGL.

        Blog entries in question: original post http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX and the follow-up post http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/DirectX-vs-OpenGL-revisited and

      • Michael PassaloukosMichael Passaloukos commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I would downvote this if I could. Back when IE had 90%+ market share and FireFox and others started pushing “web standards” that were only “standard” in the sense that a bunch of insignificant nobodies with zero market share declared them to be, Microsoft’s correct response would have been to add more proprietary features to make its de facto standard even better. MS should and could have made Silverlight universal, and web development would be a joy. Instead, we’re stuck with vastly inferior languages (HTML, CSS, and JavaScript) for the foreseeable future. If MS keeps going down the interoperability road, it will lose everything, and we’ll all be stuck using APIs designed and implemented by amateurs. Advocating support for “standards” is tantamount to advocating the wholesale abandonment of MS technologies and limiting us all to lowest common denominator technologies. The way MS capitulated to the web standards rabble was disgraceful. Never again! MS, resume unapologetically making the best products, and when others try to badger you into reducing yourselves to their level, just make your products even better instead.

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