Support different branches for an app targeting different WP7 versions, like NoDo and Mango
If an app update for Mango is submitted, the Nodo version is frozen afterwards.
This was announced here: http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2011/08/15/what-happens-when-i-publish-a-windows-phone-mango-application-update.aspx
That procedure can be a huge problem. Many users won't have Mango before the end of the year if it works the same way as the NoDo updates. And devs can't submit updates (bug fixes) for the NoDo versions when the Mango update was submitted. It's not only a problem with bugs, quite a few apps depend on 3rd party webservices like Twitter or Facebook. If the APIs was changed, the app can't be updated for NoDo customers.
Also the sharing of the same metadata like screenshots and description is a very bad idea.
Solution:
It should be possible to maintain a NoDo and a Mango version separately at the AppHub for at least 6 months (or a year). The right infrastructure for targeted deployments seems to be in place, but the AppHub to maintain those versions might not be.
Rene Schulte
shared this idea
Sorry for the delay on this, but this was implemented as part of our WP 8.0 infrastructure updates.
As Rene pointed out below, more information can be found at:
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2011/09/20/submit-windows-phone-7-5-apps-today-update-7-0-apps-in-october.aspx
25 comments
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Rene Schulte
commented
This can be set to fixed now! :)
"...by the end of October we will enable functionality in App Hub that will allow you to publish updates to both the 7.0 and 7.5 versions of your apps."
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2011/09/20/submit-windows-phone-7-5-apps-today-update-7-0-apps-in-october.aspx -
russtang
commented
This leaves us no choice but to maintain two versions... With the worse part not being easily able to bring them together at some point.
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AppZotic
commented
This is completely unacceptable and we can't agree more that there should be the ability to fork the apps. This issue will only become worse as new versions of the OS are released in the future. Not being able to fix a critical bug for NoDo users (well maybe even pre-NoDo) is just not acceptable and will only damage the reputation of the developer and of Microsoft once users begin to understand why updates are not forth comming. To have shared screenshots, well... I'm not sure this was thought out very well.
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Rikin Shah
commented
hi, i agree, if we are not able to update any bugs of fixes, it is going to make customers unhappy, the end user doesnt understand the difference between NODO and Mango, and most even wont care to update to mango.
also this will be a stupid decision from MS to do this way, no other market place does this infact they offer interoperatibility between versions and also in some case devices like Iphone apps can work on IPAD etc.
so customers are spoiled by that choice and if MS does this, it will be a disaster. i strong oppose to no updates for NODO.
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Rikin Shah
commented
hi, i agree, if we are not able to update any bugs of fixes, it is going to make customers unhappy, the end user doesnt understand the difference between NODO and Mango, and most even wont care to update to mango.
also this will be a stupid decision from MS to do this way, no other market place does this infact they offer interoperatibility between versions and also in some case devices like Iphone apps can work on IPAD etc.
so customers are spoiled by that choice and if MS does this, it will be a disaster. i strong oppose to no updates for NODO.
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Fleon
commented
I agree, this wouldn't be a problem if the rollout was available to everyone instantly, but I have major concerns considering how many roadblocks the carriers can put in front of updates.
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DroidUser999
commented
We develop mobile apps. This is stupidity. What happens if I have to do bug fixes on previous version? If this is what MS wants to do, We are not releasing apps for Mango until all the users are upgraded to Mango or Mango starts selling way more than what the user base right now is. I am not selling my app for dev devices. This is stupidity.
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jkimble commented
Even giving us a window would be better.. in other words you can update your NODO versions for the next 6 months.. and then we flip the switch.. something like that would be better than this!
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andycted
commented
@Peter:
MS clearly stated through Eric and other people on the Blog that there won't be roadmaps until you see the update coming and that everything now is out of their control and in the hand of OEMs and carriers. That sounded to me like an apology and washing hands of problems even before delays and problems start.Anyway, I would say that hardly means they will be able to deal differently from the last time...The official announcement will appear shortly, but that will have zero impact on the timeline of updates to the current user-base.
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Peter
commented
An idea would be to force Microsoft to give some roadmap on the release of Mango? October? November?
After all it seems the new Fujitsu phone with Mango will be announced in a week. But surely I have no intention to publish any apps for Mango if I have no users behind that. I update regularly my apps and I don't like the idea to see them stuck in some kind of limbo state! Love Mango but this smell like rotten fruit. -
andycted
commented
The Microsoft idea would work if the Mango update worked as it should, i.e. if everybody would get Mango in 1 week or 2 - like everybody expected it before the NoDo mess.
Based on previous experience, we can only expected one more of those update patterns, with devices not being able to get Mango until January, thus this NoDo-Mango app setup is unacceptable.
And since it's MS fault/responsibility for not providing timely NoDo/Mango updates, MS should acknowledge the problem and make it up to developers by leaving a 6-month window where you can keep both version live and updateable. Sometimes I get a feeling that instead of taking care of existing apps, they're just trying to get more on board...
@Imperial Dynamics. If your app has a new cool feature people always wanted, but it's only possible with Mango, but you won't put it out for 3-4 months, waiting for Mango to reach more than 50% of the handset, you lose customers to someone else who is creating a new Mango-only app (or doesn't care about the NoDo version) with a similar functionality.
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Rene Schulte
commented
@Imperial Dynamics
The NoDo update rollout took 4 months. There won't be a day when all consumers have the update. Customers who got the update will complain about the app not supporting Mango features (most important Fast App Switching). When you update the app, you won't be able to support NoDo customers if something unpredictable happens. -
henningkilset commented
The problem is really that an app can't support both with the same codebase when you use Mango features. Using some form of dependency injection it would be no problem to load separate versions of classes (or assemblies) using Mango features when Mango and NoDo are present, respectively.
Making developers maintain two separate codebases for what is essentialy the same app is the real issue here.
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Imperial Dynamics commented
The best practice for developers is to NOT release Mango versions of their apps until the OS is in consumer hands. Who r u targeting? Developer devices? What's the point of publishing a Mango app if no consumer has Mango installed?! Think about the broader implications of what u r suggesting
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[Deleted]
commented
IMHO it is not acceptable to disallow NoDo app updates once a Mango app is submitted. You want us to submit Mango apps, but if I can't make updates to my NoDo apps, I'm not going to update them to Mango and risk them becoming broken with no opportunity to fix them. Until either a) we can provide further NoDo updates, or b) the majority of Windows Phone users are on Mango, I will not update my apps to Mango. It is not worth the risk to me.
Bottom line - if you want us to update our apps to take advantage of Mango features, you can't block us from updating the NoDo versions of our apps for customers that don't yet have Mango.
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Bart W.
commented
Even though I understand Microsofts point of view that they would like to avoid fragmentation, oth got to be supported. Or some system to automatically port NoDo to Mango apps should be in place.
Microsoft, do realise that developers are your most precious asset at the moment to further your Windows Phone platform. Dont leave us hanging out there!
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Velvárt András commented
@Imperial Dynamics we (SurfCube) recently had to release a non-planned version (3.2) because YouTube has changed how some of its manifest files worked. This change meant that YouTube playback was broken.
If this change (which is not controllable by the developer) happened while there was a new, Mango version of SurfCube out, we would have not been able to provide a fix for those users who didn't - or couldn't - update to Mango yet. Ergo, those users would not be able to play YouTube videos with SurfCube. This means a lot of negative feedback that we didn't deserve and cannot do anything about.
Now imagine what happens if we are not talking about SurfCube, which is a browser, and YouTube playback is just a secondary feature. Apps like LazyTube or SuperTube would simply be killed in this situation, since they would not work for a huge percentage of users for months.
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Rene Schulte
commented
@Imperial Dynamics
What?! Supporting all your customers causes fragmentation?! It's customer support and it's a normal practice for professional developers. It's not fun, but we do this all the time. If a developer doesn't want to follow that practice, he wouldn't be forced to. But ATM there's no chance to control it.NoDo took 4 months and 4 months without an update can ruin your app.
Did you know that there's a huge percentage of users (like 50%) who haven't even updated to NoDo? It's not only about bugs, but so many apps depend on 3rd party web services you can't control. Imagine Twitter changes their API during that time like they recently did with DMs. All Twitter clients will be broken. It's a huge, real-life risk which is completely unnecessary. -
My friend Rene's suggestion is to introduce fragmentation to the platform. Fragmentation not for users but for developers. Essentially solving a small problem (3 months without updates can't be that bad) by creating a far bigger problem with potentially longer-lasting implications. This is very dangerous path to follow.
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Nico Maas
commented
This problem definitely needs resolving, users cannot be forced to update to Mango but are just as entitled to App updates as people who do update.
